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Forum:Mass Effect 3 True Ending predictions
I've been doing a lot of reading and searching the past two days and after coming across the statement that Bioware is working on a "Closure DLC", it got me thinking what they were going to do now. I would happily throw *insert DLC price here* at the opportunity to find out what the hell actually happened, and see where the story goes, because I feel like I had something very important taken away from me when the credits rolled, and I'd like that important thing back. So, my opinion? The DLC can go anywhere. Since the mind-f**k at the "original" endings of the game left many scratching their heads and wondering what happened, Bioware has to do something to satisfy their fanbase. All this chaos could have been prevented if Bioware's writers actually spent their so-called "time" on the ending of the game and not throw us a curve ball. So, the ending can go anywhere, but the Indoctrination Theory seems to be the most plausible, and probably the ONLY way to continue, since any other scenario would just alienate everybody. For the sake of the argument, let's say that the Indoctrination Theory is true. What would happen in the DLC? Will we find out the Crucible doesn't really work? Did the Reapers take over the Crucible? What will the storyline involve? My prediction? Shepard wakes up after being blasted by Harbinger and notices that his teammates and very few of Hammer squad survived, but the Conduit has been destroyed by Harbinger. Shepard then discovers that the Illusive Man has taken control of the Reapers through the Crucible, and must go on a galactic mission to stop TIM and find some other weapon/device that will allow Shepard to rid the galaxy of the Reapers once and for all. The only problem with the Indoctrination Theory is that what will the main quest be? And just for the sake of the argument once more, the Crucible is destroyed. What other weapon would Shepard use? That's the only problem I see in the Indoc-Theory. Just my opinion. XtranormalGeek 10:02, March 22, 2012 (UTC) (sarcasm)F*ck it, let's make the DLC ending even more like the first game and have Harbinger assume control of TIM after he blows his brains out and he'd mutate into the hulking monstrosity that they had him in the Art of the Mass Effect Universe.(sarcasm) --GodzillaMaster 12:33, March 22, 2012 (UTC) Heres the sparknotes of my four page ending. Shep is bein slapped awake by TIM and anderson by the conduit. Reapers had TIM try to hack shepard like david did in overlord. Shep had weird visions during the mind battle, and actually overpowered TIM even with his implants. So TIM has been freed of indoctrination, at least temporarily. Then the citadel plays out similarly, but harbinger appears like at the end of arrival. He explains that dark energy is the reason for the cycle. All races, regardless of warnings, will attempt to control it once they reach a certain point. The only way to prevent them from destroying the galaxy is to eliminate them, saving the species through reaperifying. Morality makes a difference, but the destroy option is a signal causing all tech using dark energy to overload. Reapers die, but the relays are intact. I can explain more, but thats the summary. BeoW0lfe 12:44, March 22, 2012 (UTC) Does that include the geth, EDI, and other synthetics or are they safe? --GodzillaMaster 12:47, March 22, 2012 (UTC) They dont run on dark energy, so theyre safe. BeoW0lfe 12:48, March 22, 2012 (UTC) I just hope, that they either come up with a plausible explanation, that the Citadel did not teleport to the Sol system, or specifically describe, that the Citadel enveloped itself in some kind of mass effect field, that rendered it weightless. Think about it: 7.11 billion metric tons suddenly appearing on Earth's orbit, or at least relatively close to Earth's orbit. That would mean shifting of magnetic poles, planet-wide floods and generally everything else you could expect from a doomsday. No Reapers needed.-Algol- 13:02, March 22, 2012 (UTC) BeoW0lfe's prediction is pretty solid, I could see them trying that too... and Algol, you're right. I never really payed much attention to that small little moment, but that is weird. Maybe another form of Shepard's Indoctrination/Weird dream? XtranormalGeek 13:08, March 22, 2012 (UTC) :If mass effect tech was not involved, then I think it's either a weird dream or a hu-u-u-uge overlook by the devs. The latter is not very likely, because everything else in all three games was quite realistic, from a scientific point of view. There was this interview, where real-life scientists analyzed the game-world. Apart from FTL speed, they concluded, that ME is very realistic. Shame I don't remember the link:(-Algol- 13:44, March 22, 2012 (UTC) First of all, I wont throw the blame on writers. From what was said there earlier, they were forced to make "this" ending because someone revealed/spoiled the ending, so most likely they were forced in the "last minute" to change it into what is now in the game. By me, the DLC was planned right from the moment they were forced to change it, as to gain time to make a proper ending. Thats my opinion on why the current endings are that like they are. For the ending, what BeoW0lfe said makes perfect sense. Thought I am not sure if there is the Indoctrination ending, I am not sure what do you mean with it, but BeoW0lfe's theory looks great, that actually Reapers can be actually "guardians of the galaxy, not its destroyers, as they choose to better kill other races before they can destroy the galaxy. Would like to see the whole your idea Me personally dont knows or thinks how exactly will the game with Reaper War end at all, I am more interest what will be after. As I said previously in one forum, I would like to see that Shepard as narrator will be telling what was happening with the galaxy, Citadel Council and all characters from all 3 games which were important, like Hackett, Garrus, Wrex with Grunt and all krogans (like if they actually made an embassy on Citadel, or "new Citadel"), Tali with quarians and geth, Jacob, Jack, maybe even Javik. And at the end Shepard living in the house, and depending on his gender and his final lover, will have few conclusions, like: *Male Shep with Ashley, Liara, Miranda or Jack - Lover will be pregnant. *Male Shep with Tali, Kaidan and Cortez, and possibly Kelly and Diana - No pregnancy or kids. Or maybe adopted? Thought maybe Tali may be without her mask. *Female Shep with Kaidan (Jacob has someone else, and Thane is dead) - Shepard is pregnant. *Female Shep with Liara - Lover is pregnant. *Female Shep with Garrus, Samantha, Kelly and Diana- No pregnancy or kids. Or maybe adopted? I know these are pretty cliche endings, but by me it fits, that Shepard, who saved the galaxy against global extinction, deserves a happy and quiet life. Not my theory for epilogue, but a wish for it. --VolteMetalic 13:40, March 22, 2012 (UTC) VolteMetalic, the Indoctrination Theory is a theory that Shepard is indoctrinated/possessed by the Reapers, and what took place after Shepard was knocked out on his run to the Conduit was all a hallucination/dream due to the indoctrination process. By the way, I don't think your endings are cliche, I think they fit, although, Miranda can't get pregnant due to her not being naturally born and having the wrong genes. (or something to that effect) XtranormalGeek 13:49, March 22, 2012 (UTC) :Ahh, I found a good vid which explains the theory really great :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ythY_GkEBck :Yeah, I forgot that, she was actually all made from her father's DNA, but who knows? If she was made into woman, why she cant be woman in all its ways? But you are probably right, it reminds me one case in TV series "House", where was a woman, which was later revealed to be actually by genetic a male. Gregori House commented with something like "The best woman is the man." --VolteMetalic 15:24, March 22, 2012 (UTC) If i make a blog with my ending (including TIM's abilities) would you guys give me feedback? BeoW0lfe 15:38, March 22, 2012 (UTC) Sure. XtranormalGeek 15:43, March 22, 2012 (UTC) Yeah, but make it so we others can join in, with each fan's own theory as a blog, using two "=", I guess you can understand what I want to say :D --VolteMetalic 16:47, March 22, 2012 (UTC) This is a little debate I had elsewhere... I figure it pertains to this question. It took millions of years to finally end the cycle with the destruction decision. Shepard is not synthetic he/she just has robotics in his body to help sustain life -opening video of mass effect 2 after Shepard's death- he would be in critical condition but not dead. The mass effect generators are destroyed but scientists are not, they could recreate FTL drives using the reapers body parts. Shepard and everybody in the﻿ galaxy could still live! It would be hard but Organics could make it in time - {swampman} One﻿ problem, though - Even dead the Reapers will indoctrinate people and make husks out of them. {other guy} True but with all the reapers dead- you'd figure that Reapers Indoctrination attempts would shut off over time.. I meant scrap the parts you need and destroy the remains... I don't think jet boosters can indoctrinate... But who knows... Technology isn't gone- just AI processes... Shepard isn't dead because he has robotics in his body but isn't Synthetic. Either way the scientists﻿ that worked on the crucible could have Relays/technology back up and running eventually. {swampman} ME2 showed us 37 million year-old dead Reapers can indoctrinate. Information about the ending is﻿ not sufficient for us to speculate. The Citadel could have potentially destroyed them in a "full" way. And about the relays, the fact that the protheans managed to figure out relays doesn't mean we could too. It might take us 10-100 years if not more. Creating one is a different matter. Plus, we don't even know if any of the scientists who worked on the Crucible were with the fleet. {other guy} If the scientist of an entire galaxy could create the relays before- they can do it again- especially with the reaper tech for study (yes the ancients were more advanced). I would guess the scientist would stay pretty close to the crucible( or inside it) to make the device operate. Anyways with no apparent threat besides interracial/Species infighting- food is the new issue. If kept in line, I truly believe that they galaxy could exist close to what it was pre-reaper discovery (in this cycle)﻿ {swampman} No lol, the reapers were made from the early organics that made the catalyst and their synthetics. Their synthetics and tech are the tech found in mass relays, reapers, and the citadel. They and their synthetics were﻿ eliminated and the reapers made mass relays, the citadel (to house the catalyst), and then began to do a cycle to prevent any future synthetic vs organic war or any chaos period. Reapers defend balance in power really, not simply organics. Order=balance in power. {other guy} Correct, I called them the Ancients(first organic civilization) -In my understanding the Ancients created the reapers (this cycles geth) and all the mass effect fields, the citadel, and etc. the Reapers at some point received AI, and eventually killed their organic masters. Soon realizing that it was a terrible idea to create the reapers, the ancients began creating a super weapon (catalyst/crucible combo) but only got the catalyst completed before they died. I think the little boy is a reaper AI- sent to safeguard﻿ the catalyst from the destruction option- and push control/synthesis on any who reach him. Shepard was the first. {swampman} HOLY CRAP, that makes the most sense out of what I heard for the Reaper origins. It makes more sense than what I came up with. Sovereign stated the "legacy of my time"﻿ aka THERE WAS a time with Reapers around. But I think to what you said, the Ancients saw their creations going against them...so they created the Catalyst to control the Reapers and create a solution for chaos. Solution? The cycle now in Mass Effect. The little boy is the catalyst, just taking on a form for shepard to understand. {other guy} good boy- Now Head deeper into the rabbit hole haha- yeah it makes the most sense to me... I believe the writers intended to say all my thoughts but didn't explain the reaper's back story better. I think they will explain more later especially with all the resistance towards the endings (from the fans) The reapers require organics to make new reapers- so they don't﻿ want to kill all life. They speak in circles because they are trying to justify killing the organics (since the dawn of the reapers) {swampman} Exactly. And people need to understand the Catalyst is an AI. It can't control the Citadel if it feels like or think another way if it wasn't programmed as such. Clearly, it isn't free or independent like EDI. It's all about order to the Reapers. They found a solution that works. A solution to preserve them, allow young to advance, and prevent full-organic﻿ genocide by synthetics. Bioware just needs to explain their origin a bit more and make the script less mature since "fans" can't understand. {other guy} Swampman 15:49, March 25, 2012 (UTC)swampman My problem with the ending isn't the events that took place, only with how they seemed to contradict and conflict with the information that the player already has. I think that it could be fixed with a simple re-write of the dialogue between shepard and the AI. Firstly, what the reapers are: the reapers are one version of the ultimate end result of evolution. They are the natural progression of a species to the point where they transcend from being individuals and become giant, unified entities. Legion commented that there are millions (or billions) of voices within sovereign, and we know that reapers are made from the genetic material of a species: when Sovereign said that their existence was beyond the comprehension of shepard, he meant it; he himself was literally the destiny of an entire race, preserved for millions, if not billions of years. It is possible, but not stated, that not only the genetic material of an individual, but also the consciousness, or perhaps soul (to be oblique) is transferred to the new reaper as well. This would explain a great many things about the nature of reapers and why they feel that they are the ultimate and unavoidable end result of evolution. First, it explains why they have so many individual voices inside of them; they are the voices of the harvested race, preserved in a new and transcended form. Second, this explains indoctrination: a person cannot hope to out reason the billions of minds that whisper into them. Think of the original startrek borg: A collective of individuals, each with a unique perspective, who offer their input and eventually gain consensus. Interestingly, this is precisely how the Geth operate. Legion himself is not one entity, but many stored in one location, reasoning with himself. Eventually, he transcends this paradigm, and the legion becomes the one, all the voices no longer discrete, but completely interwoven and interdependent, a true "I am". Then he dies. Yay. So Indoctrination is not the deception of a superior mind, it is the logical truth presented by an overwhelming number of minds. Which brings us back to the reapers' insistence that an individual cannot comprehend either the nature of the reapers (so far beyond) or the reason for their existence: they are the inevitable conclusion of evolution, synthetic minds contained within a biologic construct: they are both machine, and also organic. They are made from the DNA of a species and contain their mental essence, if not consciousness. What is especially intriguing about this theory is that the reapers themselves somehow believe that what they are doing is right, despite having been made from a race that was forcibly harvested. Somehow, in this metaphorical birth pang of a new version of a species, the reaper's minds determine a consensus where their own violent creation is justified, and more to the point, desirable. Here we enter some eastern philosophy: before becoming a reaper, the minds are separate and alone. After becoming a reaper, they are together. This must somehow be better; the reaper itself is Nirvana, where the individual returns to being a part of the everything and experiences the bliss of not being alone anymore. It is a scary thought to ponder that the races that were converted to reapers have, under their own collective consul, realized that they were happy about the transition, and look back at their individuality as being a lesser and unfortunate stage. This is why the reapers continue to harvest new races and leave others alone, and simply destroy others: they themselves are part of a cycle whereby races that have it an evolutionary peak can transcend into their ultimate stage. Races that show potential are left to develop until they are ready to experience the painful rebirth. Races that will never be ready are purged to make room for others. Leaving the races alone would prevent them from gaining what the reapers see as worthwhile: transcendence. Leaving races that will never transcend would similarly prevent the cycle from continuing, and prevent new reapers from being created. So, what's going on with the citadel, the crucible, and the AI? First, I reject the statement by the AI that he created the reapers. This means that the reapers are simply tools, and have no value in of themselves besides being essentially museums of the past; but why store organic life and not synthetic? Why store organic as Synthetic? Why is the process painful, why is so much death involved. It seems like it would be easy, given BILLIONS OF YEARS of cyclical reaper invasion to streamline the process. Why not just have the reapers never leave? They could foster civilizations and all the while harvest them. Harvest people when they die of natural causes. No need for destruction. Why let the chaos of new races and civilizations reign for fifty thousand years and then start it over? Why not just assign one reaper to each planet with life and have them steward the races, fostering complexity? Why does he want more diversity among his reapers if the whole point is to prevent chaos? No, more sensible is that like any species, the reapers gain strength from and find value in the freedom that diversity brings. A mind made of thousands of minds would want the most diverse population, so that the mind was able to offer up the most perspectives, meaning the mind was more intelligent and free. Solus said that humans are more diverse than other species: that is why they are chosen to be the next reaper, because they have what it takes to create a truly complex mind; they are worth of transcendence. The AI is merely the steward of the citadel, a part of the reapers, and not the other way around; he is the result of millions of cycles of death and rebirth. How unfathomable do we want the reapers to be? Perhaps the cycle they perpetuate is older than the universe itself. Perhaps they imposed the cycle on the new universe. Perhaps there are reapers for every galaxy in the universe; perhaps the cause of this all is so far in the past as to be completely incomprehensible. What if the oldest of the reapers was not around for the beginning of it? Perhaps they have, from their point of view, simply always existed, the logical result of the universe itself, the span of creation starting from hydrogen at the big bang and ending in reaper. On thessia the prothean VI said that the reapers may have been part of some larger machination, but perhaps it is not the AI, but rather an unavoidable part of the universe itself that results in their creation. Enter shepard at the end of Mass Effect 3. Perhaps, the AI is there to absorb especially talented individuals; what fun could we have with this concept! The Dreams that shepard is having are actually the AI, which is itself made out of countless heroes and leaders, calling to this unique individual, to indoctrinate him/her to become part of it just as the rest of the race becomes part of the reapers. This way, the AI is a transcendent being of another type. This way, the Citadel is a Reaper, and being the heart of the cycle, it is created out of only the best that the universe can muster. Think of the cards the game already lays out: it has called shepard, anderson, and the illusive man, the three humans that effect the most others, and interestingly, three different viewpoints: Destroy, Control, and middleground. The three most important humans are melded into the AI itself. It isn't an AI at all, but another reaper, the leader reaper, made of the most wise. But, at the end of the game, something has finally happened. In an infinite universe, no cycle can perpetuate ad infinitum. Every cycle is part of a larger cycle. The crucible is the key to the end of one grand cycle and the start of another. However many times the reapers have invaded, that time is, the AI correctly stated, come to an end. Something new must now come. Think of the Matrix two, I know, horrible, but it is here none-the-less. Neo is the result in a systemic anomaly that slowly builds over time and results in a new cycle. The prothean stated that the Crucible was created not by the protheans but by all the races that came before, each slowly adding something to the machine until it was complete. The crucible is complete at this cycle, mostly because of the effort of Shepard, who somehow has a mind capable of rejecting indoctrination. One way or another he/she kills or convinces the illusive man to kill himself; shepard has resisted indoctrination. Shepard was (maybe) able to free Saren from indoctrination with the power of his/her words alone. Shepard is something special, another result of the universe that ends the grand cycle of reaper invasion. It's a "no-duh" that the name shepard is significant and hearkens to christian mythology. He/she is, through his own strength and also the strength of others, stronger than a billion year old cycle. At the end, of the game, shepard must chose how the cycle must end. Those who are familiar with Hinduism can draw their own parallels into Yuga cycles. shepard can destroy the reapers and their transcendence and be completely blind as to what future, what new result, will come about. Or shepard can control the reapers, locking the progress of the universe into perpetual stasis. Or, there is the third way: a different form of transcendence, one where the ego of the individual is still separate from all others, and yet all life shares a common bond, a New DNA. Only shepard, who has the power to withstand what is essentially the fate of the universe, can destroy, control, or complete the cycle. Which choice is right is now more difficult. I myself don't know which to choose, and I'm the one making this shit up. So, taking some of the information already in the game and making an ending that feels as grand as it ought to can be accomplished by changing the dialogue between shepard and the AI. It is not his solution, it is the logical result. It is transcendence. He is not the controller, merely the very powerful leader. The reapers are not storage, they are perfection of a race. It isn't created, it is evolutionary. Shepard is not there just because, but rather so that he/she, Anderson, and the Illusive man can become part of the leader. The crucible too was inevitable. Also, we could have some fun with the dream sequence. Imagine that the AI does try to absorb shepard, and he/she enters the dream, and the whispering is louder. She has to run to the AI, just as he/she did before... but all of shepards commrads, which are part of shepard and the source of his/her strength are there, and maybe the player has to convince them that they don't want to be a part of the reaper, or maybe they all try to convince shepard to become part... imagine whichever character died on Virmire revealing that they were now a part of the AI, that at the moment of death they were whisked into the mind and made a part of it... perhaps the player could try to withstand the persuasion of their dead friend, and convince that friend that Shepard will not join. The dream ends, and shepard now has his choice of end to the cycle. (Yakueb) Impressive reasonning! Hats off to both BeoW0lfe and Yakueb for thinking things through so thoroughly. One quibble - the idea that there is some final point of evolutionary perfection is fatally flawed. Evolution is the result of adaption to environmental change, including competition form other species. Could Shepard's overcomming of the dynamic where organics will always lose to artificials be just that change which renders the reaper's methods obsolete and irrelevant in a new paradigm for the universe? Infiltrator N7 01:50, March 28, 2012 (UTC) : I agree this particular forum page just became the foremost philosophy behind the story of Mass Effect. I applaud you sirs. Epzo 02:56, March 28, 2012 (UTC) I also applaud Yakueb's reasoning but also agree with Infiltrator N7 that the inevitability of all life becoming Reapers is flawed, I think it is but one possible outcome. My favorite potential idea is for sentient organic species to become cybernetic organisms but not in the way presented in the "blended" ending but through their own free will and with technology not of the Reapers or the crucible, they would exist as individuals and powerful ones at that are in essence the equal and opposite of the Reapers (but that's just my own desire and I do not expect it to be used). For the supposed "Closure" DLC I suggest that Bioware follows the Broken Steel template from Fallout 3 and present a fourth option to the player and extend the game beyond the original ending. My idea for a fourth option would be to ask the Catalyst AI for merely a fighting chance against the Reapers and to merely destroy the Reapers and only the Reapers in the vicinity of Earth (it is where they have the bulk of their forces are supposedly located at the time) thus sparing the Geth and preventing the destruction of the Relays and not destroying the Citadel but frying the Crucible and the Catalyst. But before this can be completed Harbinger detects this and beats a hasty retreat through the Charon Relay and moves to the one near Omega to take control of the Cerberus forces there and to attempt to build a new army and armada (maybe communicating to Shepard after arriving where Shepard can say "Am I more than an annoyance now?" to which Harbinger angrily replies "We are not finished Shepard, will find a way!" but this is just what I would like). With between 70-90 percent of all Reaper forces in the galaxy destroyed by the localized pulse, the war is not over but the tide has been turned. Depending on your choices throughout the Mass Effect series, the Galactic readiness rating will reflect the challenge ahead. Due to the massive Reaper losses during the battle for Earth Harbinger is forced to switch to somewhat more conventional tactics and use every resource available to keep fighting; exploiting Cerberus research such as their implants to create indoctrinated armies instead of husks, mining resources to build more traditional warships with the benefit of Reaper technology and constructing bases beyond the Omega 4 relay.--BattleBen 06:13, March 30, 2012 (UTC)